PSA Regarding the Purchases of BFL Bitcoin Miner Pre-Order Spots on eBay.
I'm not sure if this will help anyone but it get my money back since it looks like it will be a long time before it will ship. I'd be happy even if this helped at least one other person in not getting ripped off for what is probably a very large amount of money. This was new to me as this was my first pre-order purchase on eBay, but I did some researching and I found this page that describes eBay's policy on pre-order purchases. There's a lot of text, so I just want to highlight the main points. Basically, you are protected by eBay (and PayPal if you paid with it), but the window is not open for very long. Ebay says that items must be available to ship within 30 days of the payment being made. From the day you made the payment, you have 45 days to open a case with eBay if you didn't receive the item and get your money back. So unless your order date was very early, you will most likely not be receiving your miner within 30 days or even 45 days of making the purchase. After 45 days, there is nothing eBay or PayPal can do to help you, even if the seller decides to not send the miner to you. Now this is only my advice, but I would strongly recommend not going outside the 45 day window, in hopes of getting your miner, especially with ROI decreasing by the day. Do this only if you can afford to lose the money you spent. This is just to make everyone aware of eBay's policies and that there may still be time to get your money back if you're still within the 45 day window. This helped me get my money back and hopefully it will be useful to some of you. TL;DR: You can safely buy pre-order spots on eBay, but just know the seller has 30 days from when you make the payment to ship the miner to you. If he doesn't, you can open a case with eBay 45 days from the day you made the payment to get your money back.
[WTS] 2x BFL Bitcoin Miner [7GHs and 10Ghs], power supplies, various USB Miners and Raspberry Pi Model B for controlling BFL
Can not sell for at least 6 months I need to get these things out of my house. Everything runs perfectly and have been run for about 6 weeks [turned them off back in the summer after running too hot]. I bought them from Butterfly Labs directly at retail price. I am interested in knowing how much I can get for them. Doing some math I think I can get about $300-$350 I will not be making the sale until July, when I can actually get to them and get them shipped out. [No pictures, again just looking for reference prices] What I have: 1x BFL Bitcoin Miner 7GHs (Likely could part for $60) 1x BFL Bitcoin Miner 10GHs (Likely could part for $90) 5x USB Block Eruptors 330MHs (Likely could part with the lot for $35) 2x AntMiner 2GHs [Never used] (Retail on Amazon for $35 each, could sell for $30 each) 1x Raspberry Pi Model B [would probably sell 4GB SD Card, USB Hub, Power Supply, and 16x2 LCD display with it] (Would sell the entire package for $70) Willing to ship US only
The $22,484.00 Butterfly Labs Mini Rig bitcoin miner is a huge, broken, unstable piece of shit.
(This was a rather controversial article posted on Buttcoin.org and became quite popular, even moving to the top of /bitcoin. It's since been mysteriously edited on the site [maybe by g-g-g-ghosts!] so it's being reposted here for posterity's sake. Some numbers may be off by now, but it was all accurate at the time of posting.) Butterfly Labs has a long and horrible history with their mining rigs. They started taking pre-orders over a year ago, with a ship time sometime in late July. After numerous delays in production, shipping problems and general incompetence, the only thing they’ve managed to get out the door are some of their tiniest miners, the Jalapenos. And those mainly ended up in the hands of reviewers and blogs in order to keep pumping the Butterfly Labs hype train and securing millions of dollars of pre-orders still in limbo.Lucky BFL forums user Luke-JR however scored a sweet Mini Rig from Butterfly Labs (it’s just a coincidence he’s a driver developer for them I’m sure). This rig was originally promised to produce 1500 GH/s hashing power at 1500 watts for $30,000, but has since seen it’s hashing power slashed to a third of what was promised and it’s power consumption increased 75%, now just offer 500 GH/s at 2400 watts. They’ve promised to make good on pre-order buy sending out 3 rigs to match the initial hashing rate, so now it’s only 1500 GH/s at 6900 watts, a reduction in GH/Watt by a factor of 5. So what does $22,484 buy you? Take a look!
Minirig is here! Today, my Minirig arrived. http://i.imgur.com/Yp0WPvE.jpg FedEx apparently dropped it somewhere along the way, and the weakest part of the case, the thin metal part around the back of the PSU, broke. http://i.imgur.com/lFcOHxP.jpg I’m not sure how sturdy the back side was supposed to be, but its two pieces aren’t quite together either. http://i.imgur.com/AVttcOt.jpg The power supplies (EVGA 1500W) also created havoc interfering with the neutral on the power line. This disrupted X10 communication significantly enough that the pool overflowed because the system controlling it was unable to turn off the pump. Workaround: This PSU supports 240V, so we rewired the outlet. 240V does not use neutral, so now all should be okay. Edit: 240V workaround is only partial. Still having problems But the good news is, it all seems to be working for the most part. Next up, installing it in the window so the heat goes outside
A twenty two thousand dollar box of electronics that is broken out of the box, that required the guy to do a sketchy electrical workaround to get partially working, that he is going to install in a window… and he’s happy about it? In case you didn’t notice it, the delivered unit is different than the picture on the website. They had to install 2 power supplies instead of 1 and had to modify the case to fit. Also, if you didn’t notice, the LCD/Phone thingy in the front has been replaced by … a piece of cardboard spray painted black. Wonderful. You could maybe chalk this up to a careless Fedex postman, but when you’re shipping something that costs as much as a mid-sized sedan, how bought putting a little more effort into packing? Dell and HP can ship bigger and heavier servers across the world without this kind of problem. The unit had to hit its huge power draw increase by putting dual EVGA consumer grade power supplies in the unit. We’re talking almost a 75 amp load (6*1500/120), disregarding power factor. He could very well overload the circuit panel and trip the main breaker for the house. Let’s take a look inside this guy. This is from an earlier version of the Minirig (note the single power supply) This is apparently from an earlier FPGA but it will give you a good glimpse at what kind of craftsmanship you can expect from a computer that is half the average household income in the United States. Consumer grade PSU and cheap USB hubs glued to the inside case. Electrical tape and random velcro glued to the insides A closer look at the USB hubs. Plugs are hot glued to stay secured. Electrical tape everywhere, splices and voided hardware are the theme. You can view the entire album here. Despite all that, this thing can still mine bitcoins and it should be profitable. Keep in ind that many people jumped in on the preorders a year ago when bitcoins were still hovering around $6.50 per. Meaning customers paid 1562 bitcoins for that particular piece of shit, which at today’s value is $156,200. Aston martin money. How long will it take them to make their money back (as apposed to just hanging on to them)? If the difficulty didn’t change, they would make 37 bitcoins a day and recoup the initial investment in 124 days. Difficulty is jumping pretty much 20% every 12 days or so, so in the next week before adjustment, they’ll make 259, the next 12 days 369, the next 12 days 312, then 256, then 213, etc. So by day 127, they’ll be halfway to breaking even, but by day 151 they’ll be making less than 5 bitcoins a day, and even if difficulty stopped rising at that point(which it won’t), it would take another 435 days for a total of 586 days to break even. If difficulty kept rising at the same pace, by day 200 they’d be making 2.4 bitcoins per day, and it would take 1024 days to break even with no difficulty increase. Assuming 25 cents per kw/h, and $100 a bitcoin, it would cost 0.43 of a bitcoin per day in electricity which means the unit would no longer be profitable on a power usage basis by day 307, at which point it will have produced 2620 bitcoins. Bear in mind this is only for the first few units, and that’s running 24/7 pumping out around 24,000 BTU, so yes, medical bills from heat stroke will be on top of that. But Alas, the chips don’t run nearly as well as they’re supposed to, frequently running too hot and giving multiple hardware failures. Coindesk noted in one of the first ever runs of the Minirig by hosting provide gigavps that it was running much too hot and erroring out.
At the time of posting, gigavps warned that the unit would be repeatedly shut down while ckolivas, who was assisting, modified the machine’s software to optimise performance. After some tweaking, the device was said to have been left to run continuously for two hours, and was shown to have an average hash rate of 478.1 GH/s. As you can see in the table below, ASIC number four (of a total of eight hashing chips) ran significantly hotter (86 degrees) and consequently gave the highest hardware (HW) error rate. http://i.imgur.com/q3iGrnb.jpg
So, what happens if you just decide you don’t want this, you don’t want to wait over a year to get a $22,000 broken piece of shit? Nothing, because BFL won’t let you cancel your preorder because they’re now “shipping”, i.e. they sent out one unit to their own company shill. http://i.imgur.com/0p3Up03.jpg Which is of course illegal regardless of what Butterfly Labs may say. So in summary: Don’t buy anything from Butterfly Labs … ever.
Am I missing something? Hardware investment vs Currency investment
EDIT: I understand that BFL products are on back order, and upon ordering now I probably won't have them for 60-120 days. That is a risk I will accept, and it doesn't fundamentally change my question. It will certainly change the math behind it, though, and as I'm still quite fledgling in this, I'm interested to hear the estimates of those who have more research. Things like the estimated growth in difficulty due to hash increase (current total power + sum of all BFL preorders would be a good start), next specific decrease in BTC per block, etc. which I will research further once I'm off work. EDIT2: Found the missing parts: underestimating the increase in difficulty at the time I am likely to recieve hardware from BFL due to overestimating the timely arrival time of BFL hardware. I am thinking more that the investment (~$3-5000) I wanted to make would be better spent redistributed a few different ways (All of these would be preceeded with more research):
Maybe 1-2 Jalep's on preorder depending on how fast BFL's fulfillment continues to progress over the next couple weeks
~$1000 in BTC, for starters, sometime within the next week; as difficulty increases and BTC continues to gain acceptance as a currency, potential for good return seems to exist.
An ATI Graphics card I can use for gaming right now that I can use for BTC mining during work/sleep. I game a lot, and I opted for one strong nVidia GPU when I built my system, so I've both got room for and will make use of another card. After a quick bit of research it looks as though mixing nV + AMD cards is not a problem.
I'd heard about bitcoin before, but hadn't really done any research until a couple days ago. I've been looking to invest some spare cash (I already have a Roth and 2 other IRAs, plus a savings net). So far based on all the calculations I've done, BFL bitcoin hardware will pay for itself even at conservative estimates, like this: Using the bitcoinx profit calculator I simulated a 4-fold increase in difficulty (as ASIC systems become more widely distributed) by taking the block reward from 25 to 6.25 BTC. Further, I took the value to 75 USD/BTC, and the hash rate to 90% efficiency. The GH/s per $ is pretty equal across the BFL product line, and with these numbers the hardware breaks even at ~99 days. At present I do not pay for my own electricity. However, I've found that adding electricity costs makes relatively little difference even at wildly exaggerated consumption values. Using 1KW at @ $0.1 per KWh (approximately equal to leaving your microwave on all day, or your clothes dryer on for 6-10 hours per day) only added 10 days to break even time. What am I missing? Why are so many people suggesting that others just buy bitcoins? Is that coming from only a vocal minority trying to keep others out of the game to help their hardware investment stay profitable? No hate on that by the way--It makes sense. I'm honestly just asking. I'm interested in BTC for the sake of watching an alternate currency and tracking an investment. However, if there isn't something missing here, all those suggesting buy-in for the past months--and it's been months of people saying the same thing: "it used to be good, but you'd better just buy in now"--aren't looking at the numbers. Related tangent, inquisitive: why does the bitcoinx mining hardware comparison page show 30.2/46.2/46.1 for the BFL products' MH/s/$ value? Those numbers don't add up.
[WTS] BFL Jalepeno 7.5ghash/s barely used. Make an offer in ($)
I want to sell: one jalapeno BFL bitcoin miner (used for one week) for: make an offer in USD coin values dont make sense to me. we'll cross that bridge when we get there I will only ship to the continental USA
So I've been having some rough times lately. Need money for car repairs/general bills. I finally got this BFL bitcoin miner I ordered back in September, and while the $30 a day is nice, I could use a bigger chunk of change for now. The going price seems to be ~$3000 (24btc) on ebay. Selling for bitcoins is going to be somewhat sketchy for both of us, but I would prefer that over being scammed on Paypal or something else. If we can, I would like to use a multi-sig escrow transaction. Blockchain doesn't seem to be allowing them even though they have an information listing related to it: https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrow Does anyone know how to complete these? and would they also be interested in the unit? Once the initial transaction gets relayed to the network I can go ahead and point the miner to your desired pool, and I will set up shipping it by FedEx asap (from Florida).
Reminder: In May 2013 Wired Magazine received a demo BFL Jalapeno and began mining Bitcoins. Calling Bitcoin "Nothing more than an abstraction" they destroyed their private key. Their current unrecoverable balance is 13.34 BTC.
Has anybody received anything from them in the last few months? It seems bitcoins go in but nothing ever comes back out. I've been waiting months past schedule. These chronic delays. The horrible customer service experience (at least the one I've received). What's going on over there? I'd really be interested if they've shipped ANTHING this year.
Hi miners.. I am fairly new to Bitcoin and mining process so basically I am a big newb with some money to invest. I am thinking of buying 2 x 50 GH/s Bitcoin Miner from BFL since they say that they have them in stock to ship right away (I hope so). That would be a $5000 investment + 30% in importing fees for me so I was wondering what do you guys think? is it worth it? When could I expect ROI? By some predictions (which I'm very skeptical about) it should be in 3 to 4 months.
http://bitcoin.org/en/faq According to this website, protection from chargebacks has been one of the highly touted "features" of bitcoin. But there is such a rush to charge back with payments secured by dirty fiat money that it seems to go against the very ideals most of you bitcoiners have. Or is this an exception and the need to eliminate consumer protection and business regulation not applicable here?
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